Town of North Salem

Comprehensive Plan Committee

Meeting #5

May 16, 2008

8:30 a.m., Delancey Hall

MEMBERS PRESENT: John White, Chairman

Martin Aronchick

Katherine Daniels

Charlotte Harris

Drew Outhouse

Pam Pooley

Peter Wiederhorn

OTHERS PRESENT: Cynthia Curtis, Planning Board Chairwoman

Robert Kotch

Eric Pooley

Mark Stellato, Ferrandino & Associates, Inc.

Janice Will, Recording Secretary

Chairman White opened the May 16, 2008 Comprehensive Plan Committee meeting.

John introduced Bob Kotch, who is working on the traffic sub-committee and studying DOT data, and Eric Pooley, Pam’s husband.

Regarding the minutes of the April 25 meeting, Martin Aronchick said Members could contact him as well as Warren Lucas with questions about the Scouts.

Martin also mentioned that he did not have a copy of the mobility worksheet, and John said he will post worksheets on the web in the future. Cynthia Curtis had an extra copy of the worksheet).

John said that as the CPC gathers data and brain-storms, they should also be trying to capture the state of North Salem today, asking residents what their issues, problems and wishes are. He said he wants to probe the short- and long-term issues, whether in terms of Scouts, recreation or open space. John commented that people don’t think some things can be done, but he wants to encourage discussion. He added that the CPC can explain the Town’s needs and press for cooperation from the Federal, State and local government on really important issues. He reminded the group of the importance of noting things they do not want in Town as well as things they do want.

Bob Kotch asked what the sequencing will be to achieve their goals once the CPC has a clear vision for the future. If, for example, they wanted to develop North Salem into a commercial center, that would suggest that they approve certain projects. The key is to get the interim steps right; for example, solve water and traffic problems first. Bob said that with regard to traffic data, developers tend to say that there are existing problems, but they won’t add much to them. He said that rather than not add to existing problems, he wants to find a way to solve them first, and then bring in new ideas to move on to the end stage.

John handed out a copy of an e-mail Bob sent him articulating thoughts and ideas, and ending with a statement about holding off on future development until steps to relieve current issues are undertaken.

John stated that the Town had a moratorium in 1982, because it was felt that the number of zoning changes needed was so significant that those things needed to be addressed first. He said he does not foresee major zoning changes being included in the Comprehensive Plan. John commented that he feels traffic, population and other problems in Town have been kept very small, but they are affected by what happens in the surrounding towns. He asked Cynthia Curtis if she thinks anything needs to be included in the Comprehensive Plan that isn’t already addressed by the Planning Board.

Cynthia said the Planning Board needs a long-range plan, because when developers come in with proposals for traffic improvements, once something is made better, the problem also gets bigger. She commented that if North Salem does not want to be a thoroughfare for Connecticut commuters, they may need to do something to control the situation, i.e. reducing speed limits, employing signs to direct drivers to another route, etc. Cynthia said that if these things are all implemented in the correct order, the Planning Board will better understand what to tell developers of individual projects.

Martin asked what developers would be expected to do if, for instance, North Salem reduced its speed limits.

Cynthia explained that IBM was directed by Somers and the DOT to install and pay for 6 traffic lights in North Salem. North Salem tried to stop this, but the lights are in. She said that the Planning Board may tell a developer that, due to the anticipated impact of its project, it must install lights, traffic signs, etc.

John said the CPC should think about whether they want to require developers to provide dedicated open space, bike trails or easements.

Katherine Daniels asked if a developer can be asked to put a bike trail along an existing road, and Cynthia responded that they may only be asked to do so if the request is directly a part of their project. She explained that if a developer’s project would bring 52 children into the school district, and the Planning Board wanted a walkable community/not relying on buses, then they could make that request.

John commented that they could have the developer grant a dedicated easement, and then the Town could build a bike path on it.

Drew Outhouse said that if a developer negatively impacts local drainage, for example, they must upgrade the existing drainage system beyond the limits of their property. Similarly, if the impact would be on traffic, the developer would have to pay for road improvements. Changing the subject, Drew said he wants to see a study of how many people drive their children to school/how many use the bus, adding that it should be of interest to the school as much as to the CPC.

Katherine said the school is interested and has had discussions about the situation.

John said he wanted Eric Pooley to join in a discussion of global warming and the effect of traffic.

Eric explained that he is a journalist and is currently writing a book on the politics of climate change/carbon emissions. He said the County recently produced a global warming action plan, and he distributed copies to the Members. Eric said the ambitious plan aims to reduce the County’s emission of greenhouse gases by 20% by 2015 and 80% by 2050. He said that scientists claim this will have to be done to avoid catastrophic consequences. As all levels of government will be required to mandate carbon reductions in the near future, it is important to begin thinking about it now.

Katherine asked if the County plan is a law, and Eric answered that it is voluntary.

Eric went on to say that, at the Federal level, there will probably be a cap-and-trade system, imposing a mandatory cap on utilities, refineries, etc. He explained that they would get permits to allow them to pollute which would be reduced over time; and if a facility can reduce their emissions further than what is required, they may sell their excess permits. An alternative would be a carbon tax, which politicians don’t like.

Eric said the County guide is a call-to-action for businesses, governments, households, schools, etc. He stated that he believes there will be mandatory carbon reductions within 5 years. He added that North Salem is already thinking in these terms, because of its commitment to open space and the rural character of the community. He pointed out that protected land soaks up carbon dioxide.

Eric suggested the CPC consider climate issues. He said the Town needs to have enough buses to evacuate all the schools in case of an emergency; but in the meantime, there are a lot of large empty buses. He suggested educating the public about why they should have their children use the buses instead of being driven to school, i.e. traffic, emissions, fuel-consumption. He added that if a budget permitted it, it would be better to have smaller, hybrid vans for transporting smaller groups of children. He commented that as the school bus fleet ages, perhaps the school can acquire better vehicles (more fuel-efficient, lower emissions).

Eric said a cap-and-trade policy encourages development and use of alternative energy and fuels in the near future, and any comprehensive plan should consider these things. He suggested that the Town might want to hire someone to measure its carbon emissions. Eric also recommended looking at ways to reduce carbon emissions, like using compact fluorescent lighting and installing better insulation. He pointed out that these kinds of steps are good for the climate and also help to reduce fuel bills. He also described offsetting emissions, a system in which someone is paid to reduce their carbon emissions in the payer’s behalf.

John asked if offsets can be bought by the Town so people will pay them.

Eric said the Town’s open space would not qualify, because of an additionality requirement. He said the term additionality means that an offset must be an additional reduction or sequestering of carbon; North Salem’s open lands would not qualify because they already exist.

John asked if demolishing a house and replacing it with plants would qualify, and Eric said it would.

John asked if the Town could qualify for a carbon offset if the current fleet of large school buses was maintained just for use in emergencies, and a new fleet of smaller buses was purchased for daily use.

Bob said the discussion sounded like no one would be interested in making energy improvements unless there was a financial incentive. He asked if there was talk of creating a baseline, and Eric said there is a national carbon registry. He added that big emitters already know what their emissions are, but the Town’s local footprint is unknown.

John suggested creating a chart re use of oil, electricity, etc. which could be displayed as an encouragement for people to try and reduce these things. He commented that children are interested to know that they can do something, and he said measure-and-display is a good method for encouraging this.

Eric said the chart is a good idea, because people don’t know what they’re using until it’s measured for them.

John said he wants to include something like this in the CPC’s next town hall presentation.

Cynthia mentioned that the Library is doing an energy audit, and Katherine added that the school is considering one as well.

Cynthia said she will check to see if the Town has passed a law against idling vehicles, and she thinks they have begun purchasing wind energy. She explained that the local Improvement Society is working to educate people about these kinds of things via newsletters about re-cycling, etc. Cynthia recommended including the group, as they want to do more with the Town, and she suggested that John make a presentation to them at their next meeting. She commented that incorporating the educational aspect of things is key.

The group discussed recycling, including unavailability of recycling bins in some public places and rumors that separated items are ultimately thrown away together.

Drew said the situation has changed, and recycling is properly handled now. He said all the Town’s fields and parks are recycling now, and the Highway Department takes the separated items to a recycling depot. He said the schools are recycling also.

John raised the subject of the hundreds of cars going in and out of Mountain Lakes Camp during day camp season.

Katherine said the school district cannot fund transportation for camp, and it was agreed that it would probably be a Rec expense. She said district drivers would have to be paid also.

Cynthia suggested looking into using the school’s buses and also a private company. She said carpooling could be considered also.

John stated that the CPC should meet with the Improvement Society and the Open Space Committee. He commented that things needed for solar, wind and geothermal energy use have zoning consequences (appearance of solar panels, noise from some kinds of wind mills, etc), and the CPC must be proactive in finding out the best way to do things.

Katherine asked if methane from dumpsters is included when measuring carbon emissions, and Eric said it would be.

Eric said he does not know what it would cost to do this measuring, but he will look into it.

John said he wanted to switch topics, because some of the group would be leaving at 10 for the DOT office in Poughkeepsie. He said the DOT would share short- and long-term issues and projects, both local and regional. He went on to say that information needs to be gathered into a power-point presentation for the town hall meeting. As a format, John suggested taking the 1985 Comprehensive Plan and showing how the CPC would update it; again, in the long- and short-term, locally and regionally.

Regarding activities in progress, John stated that some were going smoothly and some were running into trouble.

Charlotte Harris said she was having trouble with the Department of Health and currently has received no data from them at all.

John commented that Vince Ferrandino recommended going to the County Legislator for help. He added that the DOH takes 6 weeks to provide any kind of information.

John said he was impressed by a recent visit to the County Department of Planning, finding them to be excited about things and very wiling to help in any way. Vince Ferrandino explained to him, however, that the Planning Department enforces existing planning rules. He told John that he should see Gina D’Agrosa (Director, County Water Agency) about planning/monitoring things, etc. John, Cynthia and Charlotte decided to call on Ms. D’Agrosa. Regarding Charlotte’s difficulty with the DOH, John commented that he thought there should be a data base of some sort, and he wants to see if the County will work with the CPC.

John explained that he wants to start working on technical solutions to problems, and he added that they should have a list of things to suggest to people. As an example, he said that when it was discovered that there was a problem with his home water, he thought he would get a reverse osmosis plant. John said that although this would have helped the situation, he found out that it requires 7 times the amount of water normally used. He asked Mark to think of ideas, and he said he will speak to Russell Urban-Mead also.

Re the DOT, John said he thought they would get some useful information to present to the public. He said he hopes to see if they have a long-term vision that includes railroads, parking, buses, 84 overflow into North Salem and global warming issues.

Pam Pooley commented that Connecticut drivers contribute to North Salem traffic problems, and she asked John to discuss that issue with the DOT also.

John said that he would. He stated that a result of Westchester 2000 was larger parking lots at railroad stations, which increased ridership. In Croton Falls, people park all along the roads for the train.

Cynthia said she would not want to see any more parking in Croton Falls but would prefer to see the stations in neighboring towns used and more commuters using buses. She commented that it is a County DOT issue. Cynthia said the County Legislator once got regional planning people from Westchester and Putnam Counties and Connecticut together to discuss traffic, and she wants to see the group brought together again.

Pam commented that the CPC are not traffic experts and perhaps they need the help of a consultant.

Eric said there is information available.

John pointed out a solution used in Beacon Hill in Boston. He said they created a one-way street entrance with all the other roads leading out of the area, and it worked.

Martin asked which roads in Town are County roads, and Cynthia replied that Hardscrabble Road, Bloomer Road and June Road are the County roads.

The group discussed the desirability of the system of walking and bicycle trails in Pound Ridge. They agreed that trails which are separate from the roads are better.

Cynthia said that Recreation, Historic Preservation and Open Space are working together, adding that the Open Space Committee was very enthusiastic about the idea of building up layers of information re scenic viewsheds, historic viewsheds and sites, recreational opportunities. She said the OSC members each chose another group to meet with.

Cynthia said the HPC will contribute by ranking the Town’s entire road system from least to most historic. She went on to say that the HPC has a map from the 80’s of all the Town’s potential historic sites, which they will try to revise and add to.

Cynthia told the group that the Rec Committee will be formally informed of the Town Board’s coming vote on May 27 to increase the rec fee from $5,000 to $10,000. She added that it is possible that that amount is also low, but a new Recreation comprehensive plan is needed. She said she would talk to them about scoping the outline for an updated Rec master plan. Cynthia said the OSC needs information from the Rec Committee about active and passive recreational areas and potential walking and bike trails. She said the population of North Salem is aging, so recreational needs may be changing.

John asked if Rec has enough people to work with, and Cynthia replied that they have 7 members.

Cynthia said there is a 40-acre parcel in Purdys next to the nursing homes that will be coming before the Planning Board soon, and there is potential for getting about 4 acres for recreational use (possibly playing fields). She suggested that perhaps this parcel of land could be connected to Joe Bohrdrum Park.

Katherine asked if it makes more sense to have many rec areas spread out around Town or to consolidate these areas near the schools, which would keep transportation costs down.

Cynthia said they need to consider how many people are to be encouraged to use a single rec area in a neighborhood. She explained that although Joe Bohrdrum has room for another playing field, there is no room for more parking. She agreed with Katherine about concentrating some fields near the school, adding that school parking lots could be used during off hours.

John said that although there is a lot of open land in Town, there are not enough playing fields. He said maybe the school should look at times during the school day when the fields are not being used and not just make them available at night.

Re future expansion, Drew said they need to consider whether or not there is room near the schools. He said he wants to see all kids able to play sports whenever they want to, weather permitting.

John said he learned while at the County offices that one school district wanted a turf field, but could not raise the money for one. The district proposed grouping a few districts to share the field and then getting the County to pay. The heavily-used field then needed lights for nighttime use, and then they said something indoors would really be best.

Peter commented that he didn’t think North Salem allows lighted fields for night use, but Cynthia said it is permitted.

Cynthia said the Planning Board recently had a presentation on site design, and the meeting produced a questionnaire. She explained that the only way to control lighting in Town is through site plan review. Handing out the questionnaire, Cynthia said control of lighting on private property could be looked into, but it would be harder to impose controls.

John said he hopes to start outlining a presentation for the public at the next CPC meeting. He said he would like to see any photos Pam has taken. When they decide how to present what they have so far, they can tell the Supervisor that they are ready to hold a public meeting.

After some discussion of preferences for evening or morning meetings, it was confirmed that the next meeting will be on Friday, May 30 at 8:30 a.m.

Cynthia said the Town Board will be discussing a new policy on de-icing at an upcoming meeting, and she recommended that CPC members attend the meeting. She also pointed out that the annual storm water report is due, and the CPC should contribute input.

The Members unanimously approved the minutes of the April 25, 2008 meeting, and the meeting was adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

__________________________

Janice Will, Recording Secretary