Town of North Salem

Comprehensive Plan Committee

Meeting #4

April 25, 2008

8:30 a.m., Town House Annex

MEMBERS PRESENT: John White, Chairman

Drew Outhouse

Peter Wiederhorn

MEMBERS ABSENT: Martin Aronchick

Katherine Daniels

Charlotte Harris

Pam Pooley

OTHERS PRESENT: Mark Stellato, Ferrandino & Associates, Inc.

Cynthia Curtis, Planning Board Chairwoman

Janice Will, Recording Secretary

Chairman White opened the April 25, 2008 Comprehensive Plan Committee meeting.

The Chairman stated that the group present would work on the third front: mobility. He reminded them that the first front was water, and Charlotte Harris is collecting data from the DOH; and the second front was visual elements, for which Pam Pooley will be taking photos around town. John handed out worksheets regarding mobility, explaining that the numbers correspond to Mark Stellato’s outline. He said the blue box on the worksheet contains information drawn from the CPC brain-storming session in March.

John said that he, Cynthia Curtis, Bob Kotch, Drew Outhouse and Peter Wiederhorn would meet the following Thursday (May 1) at 8:30 a.m., at which time they would have more data to work with. As part of the data collection, John said Bob Kotch is getting traffic information from the NYS DOT, and they will go over that information before the May 1 meeting. The CPC will look to Cynthia for Planning Board data, and they will meet with NYS and County planners.

Cynthia Curtis suggested asking either Police Chief Howley or Maria D’Erasmo (Supervisor’s Office) to get accident data from the State Police. She also commented that both the State and County have useful websites.

John asked the Members if they found the worksheet helpful.

Drew Outhouse replied that he thought it was good for providing a starting point, although the list might need to be added on to in the future.

John agreed, saying he merely wanted to get a sense of the whole undertaking initially.

Cynthia suggested adding the names of some local organizations to the worksheet section on local meetings; for example, the North Salem Open Land Foundation and the Bridle Trail Association.

Regarding official websites, Drew said things are often omitted from them.

Cynthia said Jim Hahn has information regarding State, Federal and local projects.

John said he had the impression from talking to Rich Peters at the NYS DOT that he struggles himself trying to read all the data. John added that it is only an average daily count of vehicles, which he didn’t think would be indicative of Friday-night traffic problems, for example.

Cynthia said the State has other information as well, and once the CPC knows what they want, she will look into getting the data. She stated that the Scouts should be added to the list of information sources as well, and Warren Lucas is the person to contact.

Referring to the issue of bicycles on Route 116, Peter Wiederhorn said there is also a problem with the use of unregistered dirt bikes and ATV’s in Town.

Cynthia agreed that these vehicles are hard on the Town’s trails, and she added that law enforcement should be considered as a means of dealing with mobility issues.

John referred Cynthia to a worksheet section entitled, “traffic-calming tools”. He said the CPC should start with people’s comments, collect data, look at capital projects, and then start doing projections. John said they should look at the proposals and go back to the drawing board to see what else needs to be considered.

John stated that the worksheet column headed “Consensus” is for issues the CPC members agree on.

John said ATV riders often do not use helmets, and Drew said parents need to be educated about the need for helmets. He added that the vehicles have been outlawed in some areas of the Adirondacks because of the erosion problems they cause.

Cynthia said she thought it would be hard to designate areas for ATV use because of liability.

Mark Stellato said he has seen tracks in Ulster County.

Drew commented that snow mobiles don’t cause the erosion that dirt-bikes do, and there are clubs throughout New York State that groom the trails.

Peter said both types of vehicles pollute the air, and Drew responded that the Federal government is requiring greener engines now.

Moving forward, Cynthia said that people in Purdys would like to walk to the train station, but it is very difficult to cross Route 22. She asked that this issue be included in the traffic considerations.

John said that sometimes he counts runner and walkers on the roads, and there are many pedestrians on Mills Road. He said this is a good thing, and the CPC should consider how to maintain it for walkers (signs to watch out for joggers, etc.). John said they should think about where they want people to walk. He commented that there is a good track at the school, but it is heavily used during the day for school sports.

Cynthia suggested providing a walking trail around the perimeter of Volunteers Park, and Peter agreed, saying they could create a cross country trail.

John said he thought he should add a column to the worksheet for ideas.

Cynthia said there is a hunters’ trail in Joe Bohrdrum Park that could be used also.

Regarding Volunteers Park, Drew said the Highway Department is building a path from the school to Kingsley’s to try and keep students off the road. The path will undulate through the woods.

Cynthia stated that a proposed, 65-unit development behind Kingsley’s, Salem Hunt, is intended to be a walkable community, including close enough proximity for students to walk to school. She said that, with permission from property-owners in between, another possible walking trail might be from Joe Bohrdrum Park to the Audubon land. She added that there are existing trails to a lake in the vicinity.

John asked if this would be possible, and Cynthia said she thought so. It would be a matter of working with the land-owners to get permission to cross their property. She said that if the Town creates walking trails, they will need to maintain and insure them. Cynthia said the Bridle Trails Association spends a lot of money maintaining and insuring their trails, and this is a level of organization that the Town is not accustomed to managing.

John pointed out that Pound Ridge does this.

Peter said he doesn’t think the Bridle Trail people spend all that much money on their trails, and Cynthia responded that they spend about $50,000 on maintenance and $4,000 for insurance each year and have a lot of volunteers to work on the trails. She wondered if the Town has either a Rec Committee group or a walking club who would monitor trails.

Mark said the CPC should map all the potential trails, and they should be listed under both Mobility and Recreational Open Space.

Peter said it seems cost-effective to keep trails open, and Cynthia added that existing hunting trails are well-kept by the Fish and Game people.

Cynthia said Fish and Game do a good job of maintaining trails along the Titicus Reservoir, and Peter added that they are both very efficient and environmentally sensitive.

Cynthia said the Fish and Game contact person is Bob Folberg, and there is a booklet (available in Hi Grade Market in Croton Falls) published every year that lists all the local fishing spots.

Cynthia indicated the site of the proposed Highgate Woodlands project in Croton Falls on the map. She explained that they have traffic data from the mid-80’s to the present.

John said they should look at the earliest and latest data.

Cynthia pointed out the site of the Crown Plaza (now Marriott) project, and the first traffic light in Town at Hardscrabble Road and Route 22 (a by-product of IBM). She said she might be able to get the original IBM traffic report.

Next was the northbound 684 ramp at Hardscrabble Road. Cynthia said a roundabout was proposed 5 years ago. She said it is a good idea, but John responded that people don’t like the idea of roundabouts.

Drew said people remember the Hawthorne Circle roundabout, which was very poorly designed and didn’t work well. He added that he agreed with Cynthia that well-designed roundabouts do a good job of managing traffic.

Cynthia said they are also good for preventing the air-pollution caused by trucks idling at stop signs or lights.

Moving around the map, Cynthia said next was Orchard Hill on Hardscrabble Road, and they have a traffic report (2003 to 2004).

She pointed out a parcel where Barry Reisler proposes to construct a 90 to 120 unit development, and a traffic report will be produced eventually.

Cynthia pointed out the Purdys intersections, where a series of lights is proposed. She said they should keep an eye on the intersection in front of Purdys Homestead Restaurant, because the existing triangle would be lost if a traffic lights goes in.

Cynthia said the result of the IBM traffic study was a recommendation for 6 traffic lights in North Salem. The Town protested, but the lights will eventually be put in if no alternative means of handling traffic comes along.

Drew said there is a traffic issue with the whole area including Titicus River Road and Mills Road, but he feels a rotary would work well.

Cynthia said she once proposed a rotary for the whole Purdys area, and she felt sure it would have worked. The DOT proposed a 2-circle arrangement that was not implemented either. She said the CPC needs to have discussions with the DOT during the planning phase, before ideas are rejected.

Peter commented that the intersection the way it is throws traffic into Purdys.

Cynthia commented that the light recently installed in Purdys was a direct result of IBM’s parking lot expansion, and she said North Salem needs to watch what happens in other towns.

Other areas pointed out on the map by Cynthia were Salem Chase and the intersection of Route 116 and June Road. She said a 4-way stop would work there, but the DOT prefers lights. The Town prevented installation of a light in the past.

Drew stated that the intersection is out of line, but a 4-way stop would at least slow traffic, and Cynthia reiterated the need to be watchful because the DOT wants a light at the corner.

Mark stated that criteria have to be met before the State feels a spot requires a light, and he did not think the volume of traffic at 116 and June would merit one.

The Members agreed that Titicus Road at Baxter and at 121 are bad spots also, as is June at Hawley and 121.

John said people on Hawley Road object to through truck traffic and cars taking 500 children to camp in the summer.

Cynthia said the camp traffic was re-routed.

John said the Superintendent of Recreation wanted buses for camp, but she did not get them. He said he would like to see Katherine Daniels work with the Recreation Dept. to figure this one out. He added that he felt the CPC would have enough information in a few weeks to do show-and-tells.

Further on the subject of traffic, Cynthia stated that lowering speed limits helps. She added that that requires law enforcement, but it can be worked on. She suggested the CPC compare existing speed limits and recommended speed limits. She said she and Warren Lucas once marked every stop sign and speed limit sign in Town, and she suggested the CPC drive around and do the same thing with her map.

Drew said lowering speed limits must go hand-in-hand with law enforcement. He pointed out that there is no Town road with a median stripe. People ask for them; but if he were to paint one, he would have to do them all. He pointed out how silly it would be to draw a line down the middle of a road that’s only 6 ft. wide.

Cynthia brought up dirt roads, saying she would provide a copy of her map on which the CPC may highlight State, County, Town and dirt roads.

John said he would be interested in getting multiple copies of Cynthia’s map for the CPC to work with.

Mark said it would be best to work on individual maps and then layer them, and he said he would speak to the County about the availability of the official Town map.

John said the CPC also needs a computer projector for presentations, and Cynthia said the library is getting one.

Cynthia said she had a GIS meeting on Wednesday with Anna Hiraldo-Gonzales of Westchester County. Cynthia explained that all the North Salem GIS information is already on the Planning Board computer, and it includes driveways, streams, houses, roads, etc. She said they will be getting an update in 2 weeks, and the program will be on everyone’s computers.

Recapping what was decided so far, Cynthia said all the roads will be color-coded, signs (including speed limits) will be added, and the Open Space Committee will work on mapping walking trails. It was agreed that while bridle trails will not be included, trails on open land should be.

John said he doesn’t want to confuse scenic trail walkers with exercise walkers.

Cynthia commented that they need to find out whether or not people will drive to a place to walk, like the high school track.

John said a lot of people like to use the track at the high school, because it is level, rubberized, and you can measure your distance.

Cynthia said Drew offered to put one around the playing field, and Drew agreed, saying he was in favor of adding a track.

John said he thought it could be dangerous to use a track going around a playing field while the field is being used for lacrosse, for example. He thought the CPC should definitely recommend developing the walking path at Volunteers Park.

Drew said the Highway Department has a land shortage/no place to stockpile ripped-up blacktop, etc., and the Town also needs more sports fields. He stated that the parcel between the Westchester Exceptional Children’s School and the existing sports field could be used. He said he would like to see a plan in place and the area cleared so that it may at least be mowed.

Cynthia said the Town Board will be increasing the rec fee from $5000 to $10,000, and the Recreation Committee is to be re-engaged to do the rec master plan for 2008 so that it covers the next 10 years.

Drew stated that he wants to propose sites where the Highway Department can dump clean fill. He explained that the fill would build up and could be used to create ball fields for a minimal amount of money, and he would rather see numerous smaller sites than one very large one.

John raised the subject of capital improvement programs for resurfacing of roads, saying he just wants to be able to identify what will be needed in the future.

Drew said any planned roadwork should be coordinated with the telephone company if possible, because they need to dig in order to lay fiber-optic cables.

Cynthia stated that Paul Greenwood is proposing to take back the Town’s County roads, which could generate funds for facilities improvements. Currently, the Highway Department clears snow, but the County is responsible for paving/actual maintainence.

The Members discussed the condition of various roads in Town and how, although they help to keep roads in good condition, curbs require widening of the roads.

John said he thinks Bloomer Road and 121 are examples of well-constructed roads, and he would like to see walking/bike lanes added.

The Members discussed bicycling on Town Roads, and Drew pointed out that Titicus Road (a NYS “shared road” for cyclists) does not have room for a bike lane because the guide rail is too close to the road.

Cynthia mentioned that there was a movement in the Sixties to have Titicus Road declared a historic road, and some people would like to see part of Mills Road designated also. She commented that if this was accomplished, speed limits could be lowered and bike paths added. Cynthia added that NYC owns the land on both sides of the reservoir.

The Members discussed telecom and electric cables. While fiber optic cable is smaller, the cost of putting any sort of lines under ground is extremely expensive and some roads just can’t be used, so in many places, lines are aerial/run on poles. Putting in trenches/conduits when road work is done might be useful.

Cynthia said the CPC should see what traffic information other towns have that would include North Salem.

John said 684, 84 and the Town’s 2 railroad stations should be included, and Cynthia agreed that they are regional magnets.

Drew stated that they should encourage development of more commuter parking space, but Cynthia preferred increased commuting with bus service to the train stations.

John commented that a flatter fare-schedule on the trains might encourage people to use different stations. He stated that with the current fare situation, a person in Carmel might drive to the station in Purdys rather than to Brewster, because the fare is lower.

Cynthia said available park-and-ride bus service is under-utilized, but John pointed out that some people won’t use so many different modes of transportation. They discussed the restoration of a train line that used to run westward from Danbury.

Regarding buses, Drew commented that the schools were closed for the week, and the roads were less congested as a result.

The Members agreed that a significant number of students are driven to school by parents/ do not take the bus, and a lot of high school students drive themselves to school.

Cynthia suggested that if 80% of students are being driven to school, maybe fewer buses are needed.

Peter said that in some neighborhoods, the bus stop is far enough away that parents would drive their children to the bus stop, in which case they probably feel they might as well drive the child right to school.

Drew stated that there are a lot of near-accidents in front of the schools due to the number of parents, teenagers and commuters on the road.

John said this issue should be handled by Katherine Daniels, with questions about getting green/saving gas while running empty school buses. He added that most colleges do not permit freshmen to have cars on campus, so perhaps North Salem should not provide student parking.

Drew suggested a survey to determine what percentage of students use the buses.

John said he was told that there need to be enough buses in case there is an emergency and the schools are evacuated/all the students sent home at once.

Cynthia asked for a wrap-up of what the CPC needs from the Planning Board.

John said they will want the IBM traffic study and the 684 corridor study (1980’s) with any updates. He said the County could be asked to re-visit the subject of east-west trains and trains running further north.

Cynthia said she will provide the CPC with copies of the map.

Mark asked what they will do about information from surrounding municipalities, and Cynthia said the Planning Board secretary can call them to ask what their biggest planning projects currently are.

Cynthia said the Concerned Residents of Southeast and Somers web-sites have god data available. She was not sure what Ridgefield offers, but she mentioned Lewisboro and MDRA as additional sources.

John stated that the CPC will meet again on Friday, May 16 at 8:30 a.m.

Cynthia stated that the Open Space Committee will meet on May 5, and she suggested that Pam Pooley attend the meeting, both to offer suggestions and listen to ideas.

Cynthia said the Historic Preservation Commission will be meeting soon also. In addition to their scheduled meeting topic, she wants to add an overview of things the HPC should be working on, i.e. the 2 major archeological digs in Town and historic roads. She added that NYC is very anxious to see Mills Road designated, because it will help to protect it. The City owns both sides of the road on both sides of the reservoir and has complete control over the number of houses that may be built there.

John commented that Mills Road is also scenic; and, if it were to be designated as such, they might be able to prevent construction of view-blocking fences.

Regarding the May16 meeting, John said he would like to start presenting what’s been accomplished so far (Charlo9tte/water, Pam/visual, Peter/roads), and then start scheduling meetings with others.

Cynthia said she would be meting with Maureen Eckman, the Assistant Building Inspector, about the proliferation of signs around Town. She commented that there is no need for a big green sign proclaiming, “North Salem that way “, and there is no North Salem Center as indicated on another sign.

Mark said it is important to get the maps from the County, and Cynthia suggested that John file a purchase request with the Town for a computer projector.

Cynthia told the group that the Building, Zoning and Planning Departments will all be on one computer program in the very near future.

The discussion came to an end and the meeting was adjourned.

Respectfully submitted,

__________________________

Janice Will, Recording Secretary